17 replies to this topic

[TrailTamer]

I am trying to install my '87 454 (originally TBI) into my HighRider that I want to convert to run factory MPFI vortec intake manifold and use the OBDII system. I will swap to 411 PCM (silver) to get more tuning ability for more power than the "black box" that the older OBDII gm trucks came with.

heres proof that they does fit in S-10... at least under 1st gen S-series hood. http://www.s10forum....llation-223375/

I does want to get it in my HighRider.... however the only thing that I can't figure out how I am going to run it at all!

The '87 TBI 454 came without CKP (crank position sensor) which I DOES NEED to have to run it with OBDII stuff. I cant find a way to avoid the need to install the CKP stuff to the front inside of the timing cover from the vortec 454 which is hard to find to start with.



Anybody have any idea how I can get it to work?

[mtubenzie]

I am trying to install my '87 454 (originally TBI) into my HighRider that I want to convert to run factory MPFI vortec intake manifold and use the OBDII system. I will swap to 411 PCM (silver) to get more tuning ability for more power than the "black box" that the older OBDII gm trucks came with.

heres proof that they does fit in S-10... at least under 1st gen S-series hood. http://www.s10forum....llation-223375/

I does want to get it in my HighRider.... however the only thing that I can't figure out how I am going to run it at all!

The '87 TBI 454 came without CKP (crank position sensor) which I DOES NEED to have to run it with OBDII stuff. I cant find a way to avoid the need to install the CKP stuff to the front inside of the timing cover from the vortec 454 which is hard to find to start with.



Anybody have any idea how I can get it to work?

Skip the OBDII. Keep it TBI. Simple and effective. Is this a SFA highrider? If not, I'm fairly sure the IFS will not handle the weight of a BBC all that well.

Out of curiosity, why swap in a BBC? Tow rig? Drag truck? Wheeler?

[TrailTamer]

TBI won't do much for making power!

Yes SFA 1 ton D60/14B. Shooting to make 500 hp.

[ZR2tooo]

I'd go carbed.

[ducksface]

TBI marine engine, or injected marine engine. You won't need anything more than the TBI puts out.

Five wires, no trauma, get a manual shift kit for the trans.

If you get a merc instead of a volvo, they'll reflash you for $100. Without reflash=4800 or 5200 rpm max.

No trauma with the marine harness No o2 sensors, no smog stuff....
Torque starts at about 1500 rpm up to about 4200 and levels off. 600 ftlbs or so....


Iron for iron, a bigblock is about 100lbs heavier than the equivelant smallblock. 396 is 20lbs heavier than 454, 283 is 30 lbs heavier than 400....

My winch and mount and grille guard weighs over 100 lbs. 100lbs equals a key crank to counter....

small block deck height is 9.025, big block is 10.2...you'll need a three inch body lift AND a cowl induction hood to fit. I'm pretty sure the valve covers will clear, but not much else.

If the 8.1 ever rolls or something, it's going in the blazer, wiring, trans and all.

Edited by ducksface, 05 January 2011 - 01:08 AM.

[Zr2x350]

I'd go carbed.

I second this....if you go fuel injected its going to cost a lot more. You can make consistant power just as easy and the fuel savings wont be much.

[Zr2x350]

TBI won't do much for making power!

Yes SFA 1 ton D60/14B. Shooting to make 500 hp.

It being a sfa rig im guessing it will be mostly offroading....I would set it up on propane as well.

[cknaffle]

Nobody is giving Brett the answers he wants to hear. Good luck figuring it out Brett.

[usar21]

TBI marine engine, or injected marine engine. You won't need anything more than the TBI puts out.

Five wires, no trauma, get a manual shift kit for the trans.

If you get a merc instead of a volvo, they'll reflash you for $100. Without reflash=4800 or 5200 rpm max.

No trauma with the marine harness No o2 sensors, no smog stuff....
Torque starts at about 1500 rpm up to about 4200 and levels off. 600 ftlbs or so....


Iron for iron, a bigblock is about 100lbs heavier than the equivelant smallblock. 396 is 20lbs heavier than 454, 283 is 30 lbs heavier than 400....

My winch and mount and grille guard weighs over 100 lbs. 100lbs equals a key crank to counter....

small block deck height is 9.025, big block is 10.2...you'll need a three inch body lift AND a cowl induction hood to fit. I'm pretty sure the valve covers will clear, but not much else.

If the 8.1 ever rolls or something, it's going in the blazer, wiring, trans and all.

Tall deck BBC (427 and 366) is 10.2 deck height, short deck (396-454) is 9.8 deck height.

[Zr2x350]

Nobody is giving Brett the answers he wants to hear. Good luck figuring it out Brett.

Good luck indeed....hes not going to get an answer...put that same quote on any major site and see what you get for a response..most will either laugh or tell you to do what me and zr2tooo said to do....how do you plan on tuning it if its a "grey box" setup? Im pretty sure you couldnt. 500 hp with that motor in a fuel injected setup is going to take a lot of mone just on the fuel setup....its not worth the time trouble or money to fuel inject it period.

[TrailTamer]

I already have the fuel injected vortec manifold. It uses the traditional fuel injectors that I can easily swap them to the bigger injectors to give more fueling for more power. It also use very similar throttle body as 4.3 and the vortec 4.3 dist will bolt right in. The ckp is the only thing holding me back as I don't want do the swap and it wont work.

What do you mean that the "grey box" won't work? From my google searches on my PCM opinions and I find that the 411 PCM is way to go and it'll run 4.3/5.0/5.7/7.4 and even the newer ls/lq motors. I'm going to have a local performance shop to tune it or I'll buy hptuner and learn how to tune it.

I prefer to stay with gas, not going to propane on this truck. I would go carb but I much prefer fuel injected as itll be used for off road and I want the truck to run as factory as i can. Like keep factory gauges and such.


I'm all ear, if I can't figure it out, I may just save the 454 for other project and leave the 4.3 in there for now and work on other stuff and play with it while I work on either 5.7 or 5.3/6.0 swap down the road.

[Zr2x350]

What mods you plan on doing to the motor itself? Its not going to be anywhere near 500hp stock...its 230 with the current setup. You may can set it up, but i dont see how your going to get by the crank position sensor. As I said man its not worth your time.

[TrailTamer]

I have oval port cylinder heads casting 063/215 with 100.9cc, at least the guy told me, to replace the peanut port heads that tbi 454 come with and with some port/polishing and possibly zz502 camshaft And some port/polishing to the intake manifold to match the heads as needed. Along with bigger fuel injectors and tuning.

I pretty much think I'll leave the slow 4.3 in there for now and do all other work and start playing with it and keep the v8 swap as "phase 2" build but I'd much prefer to build it all in one time as I don't want have to redo some stuff again when I do the v-8 swap though.

[MWood]

http://www.pacificp....f5a236f1518b71f

These guys might have an answer for you.

[N2O_ZR2]

Just use one of these.

Edited by N2O_ZR2, 05 January 2011 - 10:10 PM.

[6speedblazer]

I am trying to install my '87 454 (originally TBI) into my HighRider that I want to convert to run factory MPFI vortec intake manifold and use the OBDII system. I will swap to 411 PCM (silver) to get more tuning ability for more power than the "black box" that the older OBDII gm trucks came with.

heres proof that they does fit in S-10... at least under 1st gen S-series hood. http://www.s10forum....llation-223375/

I does want to get it in my HighRider.... however the only thing that I can't figure out how I am going to run it at all!

The '87 TBI 454 came without CKP (crank position sensor) which I DOES NEED to have to run it with OBDII stuff. I cant find a way to avoid the need to install the CKP stuff to the front inside of the timing cover from the vortec 454 which is hard to find to start with.



Anybody have any idea how I can get it to work?

if memory serves me correctly the timing covers and the oil pans are setup different from the 87 block to the never gen VI big blocks. i dont think they interchange at all.

if you are dead nuts set on using the 87 block and the vortec 454 fuel injection with a 0411 type pcm then the only real option you have is for a harmonic balancer mounted crank pickup.

similar to this setup that is used for jeeps.

http://www.acmejeepp.../17009_1000.htm

Edited by 6speedblazer, 08 January 2011 - 11:50 AM.

[TrailTamer]

That what I like to hear.. Im glad you told me about the oil pan cuz I was about to buy some timing cover to tinker with which that won't work.

I think you're right, I'll fab a mount for the sensor and machine 4 notches in the balancer and see if it work! Lol

[6speedblazer]

That what I like to hear.. Im glad you told me about the oil pan cuz I was about to buy some timing cover to tinker with which that won't work.

I think you're right, I'll fab a mount for the sensor and machine 4 notches in the balancer and see if it work! Lol

there are many ways to run the pickup and it does not necessarily have to be machined into the balancer. you could run a small wheel between the balancer and the crank pulley. then you would just have to maching off the thickness of the wheel from the balancer snout to get everything to line up.

the crank wheel and the sensor need about a .015" air gap if memory serves me correctly. i think the spec is .010-.020" but .-15 would be ideal.