Revolutionary Idler arm idea Options

[atvspeed4]

I hope everyone is having a great Christmas and New Years. Alright I figured its time to reveal a little project I have been working on..... So we have been searching for a solution to the weak idler arm for years now and have not found a perfect solution. I have looked into the 1 ton idler arm swap and actually had done the swap on my 2003 S10 ZR2 that I had but was still destroying them after every trip as I did not notch the frame properly. This was not good enough! I traded in the S10 and bought a H3 hummer which had rack and pinion. After getting in a accident and totalling the hummer I purchased a 2002 Zr2 blazer which I have now. I went to the junk yard and took tons of measurements to try and find a rack and pinion setup that would fit properly in my blazer. I was given a thread from another site where someone mounted up a ford explorer rack and pinion but it required notching the front differential as well as the front crossmember. It also required alot of welding and a multi u-joint steering set-up that I did not feel was safe. This also was not good enough! So I returned to the issue with the idler arm. I really like the idea of IFS and some of the best IFS builders are those in the desert racing scene. I had joined racedezert.com a couple of years ago and had posted my issue with the idler arm. I found out that there are several other brand trucks that also have idler arms and they all have similar issues. I asked what solutions were available in the industry thus far and was given several links to solutions such as the Cognito motorsports idler arm brace for the full size silverado cognito idler arm brace. Due to the design of our idler arm and the lack of proper clearance a product like this would not work. Another product that I was shown was the Supersteer roller bearing idler arm that was produced as a solution again for the two part idler arms found on the 98-2007 classsic silverados and full size SUVs. Again this idler arm is not even remotely close to what we have in our trucks (but it is a really cool design). A fabricator on the desert racing site offered to purchase one of our idler arms and see if he could come up with a solution. One of the solutions that they use is to replace the bearing on the stock idler arm with a bronze or brass bushing in a double shear design. This fabricator was not able to come up with a solution to our idler arm but I was left with a link to the image of a fabricated toyota tacoma idler arm. I gave up on the idler arm problem for a while but after getting a copy of ProEngineer from my engineering class at Umass I began brainstorming different solutions. I went through two stages, the first being a single shear design at the main pivot but I was not satisfied with this design as it would require alot of machining and was not cost effective. I have decided on a double shear design for the main pivot and for now I have a single shear for the pivot at the center link but am debating what I should do for center link pivot.
 final_idler_arm_assembly.JPG ( 37.46K ) Number of downloads: 274
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Currently I was planning on having a tapered bolt machined and heat treated to grade 8 standards so that this would be a completely bolt in design but for greater strength I have the option of making the center link pivot a double shear design but it would require drilling out the center link and would not make it a complete bolt on which would turn many people away. BTW the construction is all 0.25" mild steel plate for the frame bracket and 1.5" with 0.25" wall DOM tubing for the arm. Soooo what do you think?

This post has been edited by atvspeed4: Dec 25 2008, 01:39 PM

[rennat_2006]

You need to wait for Jeremy(Miles or Muslhead) to chime in on this, He is the IFS guy when it comes to these trucks and has been fighting this problem.

[Miles]

Casey has contributed quite a bit to the brainstorming we've been going through on TXZR2.com. The only problem that I see with this, is finding someone that is willing & able to R&D/finance the build of such a piece, as well as mass produce it. Aside from that would be the insurance policy that would be required to stand behind such a one off design. That reasoning alone is why I have abandoned a one off design, that would totally end the idler arm issue altogether. I certainly don't have the money or tools to actually have something like that CAD produced. Liability would be through the freaking roof.

Having said that.....I love the design! It's just a matter of building it of course, testing the shit out of it, and then finding someone with the means to mass produce it. I definitely give Casey huge props for diving much, much deeper into researching a new design idler arm than I ever have! I've just tried to manipulate parts that are already produced.


So what are your plans for this design man? Are you going to build it yourself? Do I see four frame bolt holes in a cross pattern like we've talked about?

[atvspeed4]

Well my plan as of now is to finish the CAD drawing of the custom tapered bolt that needs to be made to mount to the center link but I have a few questions. In your experience does the size of the tapered in the center link increase with age and wear? After this is done I plan on going over my measurements another two times and check every angle and clearance to make sure they are going to work with the requirements of the factory frame. Then after that's done I hope to send the parts out to be cut with a water jet and have a prototype built. After that the fun begins, I will mount it up to my my blazer and drive it like a rental through every condition I can face,(rain, snow, mud, rock gardens, drifting, high speed sand runs over whoops etc) until I get out of school in the summer. Then I plan on taking it out and completely apart and check the wear pattern of the bearing and see if I need to make any improvements. After all of that is done I will do a cost analysis to see how many units I need to sell and the cost for each to make it reasonable to produce. Taking care of the legal requirements and financial issues will be difficult but I don't mind I have a good friend who is a lawyer and entrepreneur who offered to help me out a little if there is an interest. I really built this design so that there is as minimal custom parts as possible. The bearings are existing bearings that I can order from a company I found online. The tubing is all regularly stocked DOM tubing and the frame bracket is good old 0.25" mild steel plate. None of this is hard to source. I just need to get an idea of how many people would like one of these beasts.

BTW it has the cross pattern drilled as an option for the installer to have four mounting bolts including the factory two as you had suggested.

Please give me as much criticism, questions, and suggestions as possible so that I can make this a reality.

[TrailTamer]

will these beefed up idler arm rebuiltable?? other than that, good that if you keep it a 100% bolt-on except drilling, putting stock style idler arm back in there wont be a problem

what about the pitman arm? using 1 ton ones but would need to have the center link flipped?

one thing i kinda see the "weakness" in the current CAD design u have that the majority of the wear at the joint by the frame, cuz lot of the force is upward so id say should add another pivot above the lower pivot then there a bar run from the upper pivot to the pivot that mounts to the center link, id think this design will outlast most of the steering component parts under normal use.

however what i see that what the point beefing up the idler significant so you would develop a new weak link thats more costly to repair, even more difficult to repair on the trail than changing this stock style idler arm which is prety easy right out of the box.

i have been wheeling for 2 years now and i didnt broke a single idler arm, just wear them out, and i use my lifetime warranty from napa's. just work well.

one more thing, one time i went to badland and there a s-10 zr2 that have stock size tires on a 15x8 rims with only about 3.75 inch of backspacing. first thing i see that the idler arm on his was obviously worn out (toe in big time on a hill climb). at end of the day, u know what, the idler arm was still in one piece, instead whats damaged badly that the center link literally bents upward at the ends so he was toe-in like mad when hes done at end of the day. we has to adjust the adjusting sleeve to make the tires straight enough to go to hooters.

IMO id sticks with stock idler arm (high quality ones as NAPA premium or MOOG or Power Performance brands).

/discuss

[atvspeed4]

Thank you for the input, In response, I personally have only had the tierods, idler arm, and pitman arm, and steering box and the rag joint wear out or bend as far as steering parts. My 2003 S10 saw severe abuse. I was doing 75+ mph passes on a "track" at a farm up near my school drifting in and out of corners. it saw small jumps, rock crawling and aggressive street driving almost on a daily basis. I was wearing out the idler arm daily, even with the 1 ton setup. All the other parts have solutions that are almost bulletproof. I feel that its time to bring the idler arm to the next level. The only time I have seen a centerlink bend was on a s10 where the tie rod was not tightened properly into the centerlink and the slop bent the centerlink at the outer hole. In the end how about working towards a steering setup without issues. Miles has almost perfected the 1 ton set up on his blazer and is yet to bend the centerlink. What I hope to offer is a idler arm that offers a strength greater then the 1 ton setup but the ability to be completely bolt on. As far as addressing the pitman arm I believe that most wear can be attributed to the worn out idler arm allowing movement in a plane that varies from the designed plane.

yes, the frame bracket will not need to be removed from the frame once mounted and will be separate from the arm itself.
This will allow the arm to be removed to be rebuilt if necessary. I cannot see a reason the arm would need to be rebuild though.

Thankyou keep the questions and comments coming!

This post has been edited by atvspeed4: Dec 25 2008, 06:53 PM

[TrailTamer]

another thing good to keep the beefed idler arm to work with stock style pitman arm for the lifted (BDS5 or SLS6) s-series. however this bring up the question...

will this new design still a bolt-on in lifted s-series?

Thank you for the input, In response, I personally have only had the tierods, idler arm, and pitman arm, and steering box and the rag joint wear out or bend as far as steering parts. My 2003 S10 saw severe abuse. I was doing 75+ mph passes on a "track" at a farm up near my school drifting in and out of corners. it saw small jumps, rock crawling and aggressive street driving almost on a daily basis. I was wearing out the idler arm daily, even with the 1 ton setup. All the other parts have solutions that are almost bulletproof. I feel that its time to bring the idler arm to the next level. The only time I have seen a centerlink bend was on a s10 where the tie rod was not tightened properly into the centerlink and the slop bent the centerlink at the outer hole. In the end how about working towards a steering setup without issues. Miles has almost perfected the 1 ton set up on his blazer and is yet to bend the centerlink. What I hope to offer is a idler arm that offers a strength greater then the 1 ton setup but the ability to be completely bolt on. As far as addressing the pitman arm I believe that most wear can be attributed to the worn out idler arm allowing movement in a plane that varies from the designed plane.

yes, the frame bracket will not need to be removed from the frame once mounted and will be separate from the arm itself.
This will allow the arm to be removed to be rebuilt if necessary. I cannot see a reason the arm would need to be rebuild though.

Thankyou keep the questions and comments coming!

[atvspeed4]

I honestly haven't been under a suspension lifted S-series in about two years so I do not remember the constraints of space but I am 99% sure it will fit no problem as the stock arm remains in the factory location with those two lift kits and use a dropped steering linkage to drop the 5-6 inches. Thats a good point and would be pretty cool if it worked in that application

[beedle4]

If/when this goes down you can sign me up to test her on a suspension lifted truck!

[Kristian]

I like that idea!!! Its almost exactly like this idea I had on october first 2008 @ 9:18pm...

http://txzr2.com/board/showpost.php?p=24663&postcount=33

I would love to see it brought into fruition. With the ES motor/transmission mounts out now the idler arm is the one Achilles heal that we can't fix by basterdising s-series parts together, or buy the fix off the shelf (at any price) from the aftermarket world

This post has been edited by Kristian: Dec 26 2008, 10:52 AM

[TrailTamer]

kristian have a excelent excuse/reason that we should take a level up on the idler arm since there's other parts has been upgraded in aftermarket world, the idler's still biotch weak so

let me ask again, is this new idler arm rebuiltable? or have to replace as unit when they got worn out??

[atvspeed4]

As I wrote above the Idler assembly is two parts, a frame bracket and actual arm. The arm will be able to be removed and rebuilt if necessary by replacing the bronze bushings.

[TrailTamer]

hmm bronze bushing will be strong enough? they can shatters under large load/impact. my go-kart had bronze bushing and they literally shattered under normal use (cheapo murray go-kart) and i had to keep replacing them to keep my camber straight on my go-kart (suspension equipped oens)

[atvspeed4]

It is not a standard bronze bushing, it is a mix of metals that a company that I have found makes to handle large amounts of pressure but also allow a lubricant free operation. This is not something I am skimping on.

[Benielsahn]

If you use bushings they better be pretty damn heavy duty. Or your gonna end up with an idler arm just like my drivers side door. Saggy and Loose. (anybody else have this problem?)

[TrailTamer]

this just came in my mind; i like the bronze bushing idea

cuz a while ago i watched TRUCKS! on Spike and they talked about the semi trucks' suspension/steering system. they actually uses bronze bushings in the steering system so this tell me that bronze bushing is way to go!

[beedle4]

Start making them and I will get her in ASAP. Im suspension lifted!

Any ides on cost?

Also since 2 more holes will need to be drilled for the "brace" will they need to be larger on the outside frame like stock in order to get a socket inside? Or is there a way to work a nut on wrench into that area?

[Kristian]

Also since 2 more holes will need to be drilled for the "brace" will they need to be larger on the outside frame like stock in order to get a socket inside? Or is there a way to work a nut on wrench into that area?

Anyone with small hands/arms can fish a wrench into the frame horn from the front.

[beedle4]

Nice that makes it more user friendly.

[atvspeed4]

With a little struggle, you can get a socket in from the backside just like usual. Last night I started to make an exact model with wood to check everything for fitment, spent way to long on the lathe. Just got the tapered bolt done for mounting to the centerlink out of wood. I wish metal was as easy to work with as wood.